I totally think the government should sanction civil unions only and leave marriage to the churchs and whatever other groups want to claim it.

Also - I just read San Francisco’s turnout was 58%! I’m too lazy to do the math but I’m wondering if a bigger turnout in San Francisco could have swung the Prop 8 vote.

But this is where I agree with you. The fucking government has no business being involved in a “profoundly religious act”. Therefore we should just abolish marriage as a government institution and everyone gets civil unions. The churches can marry (gays or no gays) but the government needs to stay the fuck out of it.

I defend that idea nor do I understand why anyone would think that gays/lesbians should just have a different word. I don’t understand that AT ALL. Not in any way. That’s some separate but equal bullshit right there.

That is also besides the fact that a civil union != a marriage. It’s not just a word swap. There’s a lot more differences there in the eyes of the law in most places that have these ‘civil unions’. For just a quick rundown of differences, head on over to about.com:
http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/wedding/a/unionvmarriage.htm

My parents voted against a ban on same-sex unions for the Kansas constitution. I fear if they lived in California they would have voted for Prop 8. You see, my parents have come a LONG way in accepting gays and lesbians. They grew up in a time, place and religion where it was considered wrong to be gay. I give them credit for coming as far as they have. That said, they’re uncomfortable with opening up “marriage” to gays and lesbians. They think marriage is between a man and a woman, and they think of it as a profoundly religious act. They’re okay with gays and lesbians joining together in a union of some kind; they just think it should be called something else. I’m not defending this idea, but I understand why they feel this way.

I think California may have pushed a little too hard. The older generation might be ready for same-sex civil unions but same-sex *marriage* is just a little too much for them. I don’t think that people who voted to ban same-sex marriage hate the gays. I don’t think they’re even necessarily against same-sex unions (though some of them certainly are).

The poll numbers bear out the generational divide. I can’t find data on final results, but an Oct 31 poll shows 62% of 65+ voters in favor of Prop 8 and 39% of 18-34 year olds in favor.

Like all civil rights battles, this one will take a while. While it sucks Prop 8 passed, it says a lot for the future that young voters support gay marriage in large numbers.

When I was in the Bay Area last week everyone I talked to said, “It’ll never pass!”. I saw people on the corners in Oakland with NO ON 8! signs and there were supporters everywhere honking their horns and giving the thumbs up. I saw gay people and straight people, entire families and their kids protesting together and it was beautiful. I came home to Wisconsin full of excitement and pride from all the awesomeness. And now this. Tragic. Infuriating. This is THE Civil Rights issue of our generation. Goddammit.

From what I can gather, the Mormons came in with all their dirty god money and kicked up the advertising campaigns. Who can compete with that? I also read about a planned overnight yard sign coup staged by the Yes fuckers but it was botched due to a production or shipment failure from the sign manufacturers in China. Whatever the reason, I think the Yes fuckers laid low and concealed their strengths. Whatever happened, the rug got pulled from beneath us. That “Don’t let this happen to you” video that you posted with the guy on the bike should have been applied to Prop 8. Ahh fuck it. We won’t get fooled again. The gloves are off. I am angry too, J. I am disgusted and saddened by the hurt and disruption this is causing so many people. Not just in California, but around the world.

People have always looked to California for inspiration and example, and this is a really shitty, hurtful display of how to send the message that “it’s okay to deny, discriminate, and shit on other people because the bible says so”.

It is a shame and a disgrace that the Yes fuckers, and most Americans as well, don’t see this as a Civil Rights referendum. Obama’s victory was huge. It’s our victory, but we have so much more work that needs to be done.

I’ll sign off now. With heavy heart, and great fear and loathing. Thank you, J.